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CMYK showing as RGB and RGB showing as CMYK
  • Posted By : olihart
    Member Since: 12th February 2019
    Posted on: 24th March 2019 1:42 PM
    Hi

    I am trying to upload my artwork for a game board and a box and I am finding that although the pdf is saved in CMYK it appears as an over saturated RGB on the website. I have read that this is just the way that the website displays the image, however I have found that if I convert and upload in the RGB format it gives me the correct colours, presumably as it converts the image properly.
    Which artwork I should use for my board game? It seems silly uploading the CMYK format if the RGB is what is showing correctly on my screen.
  • Posted By : Ivory
    Member Since: 21st April 2016
    Posted on: 26th March 2019 9:30 AM
    Hi,

    I can understand how this seems confusing but you should always provide artwork in a CMYK format as it will be the best representation of actual Print.

    Regards,
    Ash
  • Posted By : olihart
    Member Since: 12th February 2019
    Posted on: 6th April 2019 12:20 PM
    Hi Ash

    Thank you for responding. I sent the artwork in the CMYK format, and I checked it by opening in different programs, but unfortunately when I received the first parts to check the colours were wrong, they were all RGB which meant over saturated. So I am little hesitant on what to do next to make sure the colours are right the second time. I can upload some photos if that helps.

    Thanks
    Oli
  • Posted By : Ivory
    Member Since: 21st April 2016
    Posted on: 8th April 2019 8:15 AM
    Hi Oli,

    Are you meaning the physical components we sent you found the colours to be over saturated? No matter what format they were supplied our press would convert it to CMYK. Might require tweaking the colours slightly on the artwork just to achieve the perfect colour mix you desire.

    Jake
  • Posted By : olihart
    Member Since: 12th February 2019
    Posted on: 8th April 2019 6:17 PM
    Hi Jake

    I understand now that the gamemaker actually converts your files into RGB space, and massively over saturates the colours in doing so. It is then converted back into CMYK for the presses but the colours are all changed at this point. Perhaps it would be possible to update the handbook to reflect this?

    Thanks

    Oli
  • Posted By : Ivory
    Member Since: 21st April 2016
    Posted on: 9th April 2019 11:14 AM
    Essentially this change is due to the nature of operating a web based system you have this transition from web to print (real life is never quite as vibrant is it!) have emailed you now but for future reference if you have specific colour requirements please contact us before ordering and we'll do our best to help.
  • Posted By : Raz
    Member Since: 4th April 2019
    Posted on: 17th April 2019 12:36 PM
    Hi Everyone that has seen overly saturated proofs,

    I want to make sure that everyone is aware of how this system works as not to fall into any traps. To make sure they get the best colour representation possible.

    First let's look at the Handbook (as below)

    The Complete Handbook>Artwork>Uploading Artwork - "Ensure all artwork is using the CMYK colour space. We print soley in CMYK and supplying CMYK artwork will ensure no dramatic colour changes occur..." - While this is correct (technically, since they do print in CMYK), how it actually works is "...To clarify, this conversion process is what modifies the artwork. Essentially we go CMYK > RGB > CMYK so it does change it a bit unfortunately ..." <- This is a snippet from an email Jake sent me from Ivory. This means that when you uploaded your CMYK PDF as instructed via the handbook, it converts the colour to RGB (this is why it's saturated) so you can view the proof via your monitor, they then convert the newly saturated file back to CMYK and print that, meaning you WILL get an overly saturated print.

    The Complete Handbook>Artwork>Proofing>I went to proof my artwork and the colours look different! - "...The proofing system proofs in RGB due to the nature of the web. So when CMYK artwork goes through the proofing system it tends to look slightly darker, all artwork is printed in CMYK however..." - Again, technically this is true as they do print in CMYK (but from an overly saturated RGB conversion of your original CMYK PDF... I hope I'm not confusing you with all this).

    On our next stop, lets look at this forum chain, and we'll see conflicting stories:

    "Hi,

    I can understand how this seems confusing but you should always provide artwork in a CMYK format as it will be the best representation of actual Print.

    Regards,
    Ash - Ivory Posted on: 26th March 2019 9:30 AM"

    &

    "Essentially this change is due to the nature of operating a web based system you have this transition from web to print (real life is never quite as vibrant is it!) have emailed you now but for future reference if you have specific colour requirements please contact us before ordering and we'll do our best to help. - Ivory Posted on: 9th April 2019 11:14 AM"

    Both messages are posted by Ivory employees, though neither are inaccurate with their response they never actually tell it straight. So let me. The proof is what you will get. If it's overly saturated on the proof, then it will be overly saturated in print. To stop this from happening, and to make sure you get the best version of your board game, you need to contact them via email first and let them know how important the colour of your game is (cant believe I even have to write this sentence...), you can then email them the CMYK PDF or WeTransfer it to them.... Please see another part of my correspondence with Ivory below.

    "...if you are interested we could take files on any future orders via email/Wetransfer..." - Another snippet from the email from Jake from Ivory. As you can now tell, I had fallen foul of the overly saturated print trap.

    Let us now look at the Terms and Conditions on Ivory's site. (https://www.ivorygraphics.co.uk/gamemaker/terms) and scroll down to No.7 - Colour Reproduction.

    "...All our machines are colour calibrated regularly to print industry standards. However due to the nature of our web based system we can not guarantee colours will be printed as expected, and accept no liability if colours are not as intended.
    If you have specific colour requirements please contact us before ordering..." - This means they take NO responsibility for you accepting and proofing the wrong colours and thus receiving an inaccurate print, which also means if you want it done properly you will have to pay for it again (and hope the second time is accurate). Please do not fall into the trap I did, make sure you email them, talk to them on the phone and let them know what you need before ordering.

    My biggest problem is the actual print quality (not the colours the accuracy of the detail) and finishing was VERY GOOD, but the whole thing was let down by the colour inaccuracy and how a print company that prints solely in CMYK would even consider thinking converting CMYK to RGB back to CMYK is okay. Lastly, monitors cannot replicate CMYK accurately as they are a RGB base, but showing a conversion to sign off and using a conversion on conversion to print are two separate things. I really want you to get the best out of your work, so use what I've mentioned to get the best out of it, as I've said, the quality of their work is great and I will use them again only if I contact them first via email regarding the CMYK original as described above.

    Regards,
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